New Hall and Collins Echo Unit

[Abbeyroadie]

Gentlemen,
I share your disappointment and frustration with the ongoing availability of the new echo unit....and I'm sure Charlie & John do too.
Obviously not being directly involved with this project I can only mention what I believe has already been made known to those interested on a different site.
However as Charlie is not a member here I feel a few words might help.
Please do not blame Charlie or John for the problems which are manufacturing based and they have no direct control over such things, as far as I know all the work has been done including the user guide and submitted to the manufacturers.
What you have to consider here is that we are dealing with a one off item never manufactured before designed from the ground up by Charlie & John and built by a third party manufacturer in small batches. This is not yet another mass produced product from a global company with the mass production capability and research facilities to match, neither as you will know is it just another unit that can do echo's based on the available delay's etc that just happen to be in the product...Quadraverbs,G3 G7 etc etc.
There has been a problem with the metalwork and I understand that one of the original contract companies involved is no longer involved.
For all I know there may be other reasons to consider...
So as they say down under...Fair go mate !!

[Twang46]

I don't accept that the new pedal is a "unique" concept as the format used has been used before, that is design the electronics, manufacture & then send to have the electronic components fitted into the casing .
Economies of scale are another matter of course but it's 4 years now since a working prototype was demonstrated & surely there has been enough time to get the thing into production

I can't help but wonder how many potential customers move away each time a delay is announced

Has the "boat" been missed after all these delays seeing the arrival of the Zoom version for less than £100 that is getting rave reviews, not to mention the further development of the Echotapper system which starts a well under £100 as a D.I.Y. kit.

EFTP started most of us off on rediscovering the Shadows sounds after all those years & I do hope the pedal is a success but

Dick.

[Abbeyroadie]

Dick & Paul & other interested parties...
All fair comments ? Well everybody is entitled to their opinion here and I welcome yours.
But I never mentioned a unique concept and as far as your description i.e design, manufacture and of course fitting you could apply it broadly to almost anything a guitar or even a car for instance.
Economics ?? Well as far as I can see when an individual or 2 in this case living 11000 miles apart want to produce an unknown number of an item never previously manufactured item and the individuals concerned are not global concerns as previously mentioned then what would you have them do?
The only way is take as long as it takes to perfect the item and in this case to advertise in order to estimate the interest then go to a manufacturer for a working prototype and do a deal on numbers.
I do not know if you gentlemen have ever been involved in small unit production in the music industry or for items that in the main do not have any appeal to the general public but I have and believe me its not easy to get a manufacturer interested in the first place.Generally they talk in 000's and can't be bothered with small numbers.
You mention 4 years since we first heard about this unit can't argue with that but from concept to finished item is a long road if it's going to be right first time.
Wonder how many potential sales are lost because of changing delivery times ? I'm informed none so far but the good news is that it won't cost you a penny if there is.
Missed the boat...well can't speak for the echotapper but the zoom G3 is a not a serious contender for comparison.
Still like you guys I too wish the pedal every success.
PA

[Iain Purdon]

Thanks Pete. We will watch and wait. Many members here are also members of Charlie's site and will already be aware of what's going on. Likewise Charlie would be welcome as a member here, which would give him the opportunity to respond directly to queries as they arise. As things stand, anything said here by Shadows guitarists can easily be hearsay or opinion, which doesn't really get us anywhere!

Iain

[AlanMcKillop]

Opinions don't get us anywhere? very strange thing to say.

[Twang46]

Hi Peter

I think it's one of these "we will agree to disagree" things as you are obviously passionate about the H&C pedal, for example " we are dealing with a one off item never manufactured before" ............ I would describe this as unique.
By the way "H&C" is the name I suggested a couple of years back when there was a "naming" thread running on the CH&F site.

Iv'e no wish to debate with you about this on the forum, but if you care to pm me I can explain my viewpoint if you wish.

Ian

A large part of the problem is that people don't know what is going on

Cheers

Dick.

[Iain Purdon]

A strange thing to say? Perhaps I wasn't clear, Alan. Offering opinions as to why the delivery is later than expected does not actually tell us when to expect it. I could say I think it'll be ready in June. But Charlie's predicted date would be a whole lot more useful!

[Abbeyroadie]

Dick & Ian,

Dick,
Despite my 10 years as Charlie's partner in EFTP I'm not so much passionate about the H&C pedal as I'am in putting a different aspect on comments made
that in my opinion seem a little inaccurate in the circumstances.
The only thing I can add is that I know for a fact that Charlie has worked extremely hard on this project (as has John) during a period in which his health has not been good, a matter which I would not normally discuss but it is well documented on his site.

Iain,
Could not agree more...As they say there's the rub, Charlie is not in position to give exact estimates of availability because everything from production,packaging,distribution etc etc now is in the hands of the manufacturer .

[AlanMcKillop]

With all due respect, the only person to put 'estimated dates' for the unit to be ready, was Charlie Hall himself on his website. If there were so many factors beyond his control, he should not have drip fed the information on an anticipated completion date. The only comments or opinions expressed here, were directed towards yet another delay in the pedal being ready. I know of Charlie having posted at least 5 dates for possible completion, so there have been a few 'predicted' dates from the man himself, not opinions by others as to when it's likely to be released. Like everyone else, I'm sure it will come up to his previous high standards, we've just got to hope that we will still be alive to enjoy it.

[Twang46]

Hi Alan
You've summed this situation up really well.
From my experience in taking electronic units from design through the manufacturing process I can only see more delays with this pedal unfortunately

Perhaps now is the correct time for a official update as to the progress

Dick.