So, which echo is the best ?

[fenderplucker]

I find it just about impossible to make any meaningful conclusions from most recordings of live performances, particularly those simply recorded with camcorders or phones. There are too many other factors involved, the main being room echo/reverb (exacerbated by the far-field recordings) and compression in the recording chain. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to get some studio quality recordings (even if just short excerpts of tunes) to clearly illustrate the points being made? Please, Please??

Regards,

Paul.

[RayL]

I find it just about impossible to make any meaningful conclusions from most recordings of live performances . . . . Surely it wouldn't be too hard to get some studio quality recordings (even if just short excerpts of tunes) to clearly illustrate the points being made? Please, Please??

Over the years, the Pipeline Convention has welcomed many Shadows-style bands from the UK and from Europe.Just in the last 10 years these have included Alan Jones & Friends ; '1961' ; Bungleflint ; Indra & Move It ; Los Jets ; The Flames ; The Foot Tappers ; The Silhouets ; The Runaways ; The Shadowers ; Legend ; The Shadders ; Shazam and The Silver Shadows

Since I started recording the Convention in 1995, the policy has always been that instruments are individually mic'd so that the true sound of the band is not coloured by the acoustics of the venue. The lead guitar sound you hear is just as the guitarist intended it to be. As an example, here are Legend playing Tomorrows Cancelled, a wonderful recreation of the original with a superb lead guitar from Tony Hoffman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jqaMroIaKM

Not all live shows are recorded on camera mics!
Ray

[fenderplucker]

Hi Ray,

That is indeed a nice recording, but I did make particular reference to those done on inadequate equipment, like the links given above. Furthermore, while a close mic'd recording of a live performance might help in identifying the features being discussed, particularly if done on good equipment, if there is no basis for direct comparison then it can still be quite hard to draw any conclusion (e.g. does a drum machine sound different to a tape one and if so how, given other possible variables like playing style and so on?). Either a direct comparison between the two or with with the original recording always makes things much easier to distinguish.

Paul.

[Patrice]

I'm totally in agreement with you Paul about the "live" recording conditions.
And in addition of the (good or poor !) quality of the "recorders" the natural reverb of the room you play change the impression of what the echo box is able to deliver..."alone"
So ?
Guitar Express and I will be in Tilburg the next October 25th...
If some of you will be there... "Ben" asked me to do a demo of my modified Bison... So !

Best regards from France
Patrice

[ecca]

Do we have the physical dimensions of the Meazzi wheel ?

[ErikMAMS]

I don't have the exact data, but a rough estimate from available pics I'd say the wheel is 120-130 mm diameter - judging in relation to the valves or valve shield also in the pic. The Binson wheel is 120 mm (just measured on my PE603).

Erik

[ecca]

Thanks Erik....
What's the depth would you think ?

[dave robinson]

Just spoke with Alan Jackson who told me the wire on a Binson is hooked through a little hole in the wheel at the beginning and end of it's length and is secured with glue or solder . . . .

The Baby Binson wheel is three inches in diameter and the larger one is four inches.

[Graham S]

It is an interesting debate and is throwing up some exciting possibilities and I'll be interested to hear any wheel echo that is available to try, but that said I honestly don't believe that I could sound any better or receive better applause than recently witnessed over the last few months using either the Etap2hw, Catalinbread or Zoom G3x.

Before that on similar shows the ESE Echomatic and Atlantis were used and they too did the business. I play for a living and the attendance and success of a gig relies upon doing the job right, realising peoples expectations particularly on Shadows type gigs as many audience members are critical. I don't think it would benefit me any more if I had Hank's Guitar, Meazzi and Vox, I've recently sat and listened to my understudy get the same sound using his USA '62 reissue Strat, my Vox and his Zoom G71ut and it has been top notch, far closer than Hank achieved on his 2004/5 and 2009 tours. It's so obvious when you hear him that he doesn't want the sound that the punters expect, he actually told Paul Rossiter to turn off the vintage effect on the TVS3. It isn't at all lost, it's there in spades if you set the kit up properly. That doesn't mean I wouldn't embrace the chance to use the exact kit, but I don't think our punters would be any more convinced.

I'm a pro player and I don't think the punters I play to know the difference between any of the gear I use, even when I use my RFX-2000 let alone any better processors.
Graham.

[dave robinson]

I agree Graham, I don't think the average punter would hear the difference, but the problem is that we do.