So, which echo is the best ?

Hints and tips on getting the sound you want.
Includes anything to do with Fender, Burns and other guitars; playing techniques;
also amps, effects units, recording equipment and any other musical accessories.

Re: So, which echo is the best ?

Postby Didier » 03 Oct 2014, 18:42

Hank2k wrote:Its quite amazing that will all these variables that anyone is able to even come close to the sound.

With guitars, pickups, strings, plectrums, then echo machine circuit, heads, tape, then amp style size, speakers, valves then abbey road itself microphone, reverb, compressor, recording equipment. Couple that with hanks hands, his style, the clothes he was wearing....ok that's too far but you get my point.

Thare are other important points, a major one is that the echo unit must be placed on a wooden chair, as at the Paris Olympia in 1962 :

Image

(photo by Jean-Louis Rancurel)

Didier
User avatar
Didier
 
Posts: 1934
Joined: 15 Sep 2009, 10:57
Location: West suburb of Paris, France

Re: So, which echo is the best ?

Postby Twang46 » 03 Oct 2014, 20:46

Didier wrote:
Hank2k wrote:Its quite amazing that will all these variables that anyone is able to even come close to the sound.

With guitars, pickups, strings, plectrums, then echo machine circuit, heads, tape, then amp style size, speakers, valves then abbey road itself microphone, reverb, compressor, recording equipment. Couple that with hanks hands, his style, the clothes he was wearing....ok that's too far but you get my point.

Thare are other important points, a major one is that the echo unit must be placed on a wooden chair, as at the Paris Olympia in 1962 :

Image

(photo by Jean-Louis Rancurel)

Didier


Now let's not forget the influence of the Gretsch on stage as well.............is it or isn't it there for any sort of reason connected with the sound ?

Am I being ridiculous now ?

About the wooden chair............ yes it does affect the sound, the best turntable support I ever auditioned was a simple wooden coffee table like support, 4 slim legs & a plywood top. Outperformed a supposedly high end steel & glass spiked support system.
I couldn't believe what I was hearing & refused to buy it then spent many weeks afterwards trying to replicate the improvement at home (with limited success)
The turntable in question was a Linn LP12 by the way.

Dick.
Twang46
 

Re: So, which echo is the best ?

Postby Didier » 03 Oct 2014, 21:25

Twang46 wrote:Now let's not forget the influence of the Gretsch on stage as well.............is it or isn't it there for any sort of reason connected with the sound ?

The Gretsch was there only as a spare guitar, just in case of a broken string on the Strat. But I wasn't there at the Paris Olympia in 1962, I was there earlier when Hank still had the first Strat with mapple neck and Tony Meehan was still there (he played See you in my drums). The next time I saw the Shadows on stage was in 1964 (again at the Paris Olympia), but then they had the Burns guitars and a quite different sound (with no or very little echo)...

The turntable in question was a Linn LP12 by the way.

I had a friend who had a Linn LP12 with an EMT moving coil PU cartrigde. At this time I only had a Thorens TD150 turntable with Shure M75-6 PU cartridge, and still have it in working order (I only replaced the belt).

Didier
User avatar
Didier
 
Posts: 1934
Joined: 15 Sep 2009, 10:57
Location: West suburb of Paris, France

Re: So, which echo is the best ?

Postby sixstringsid » 03 Oct 2014, 21:37

just read through this entire thread, top stuff, hope it continues... come on fellas, post some more!
sixstringsid
 

Re: So, which echo is the best ?

Postby ecca » 03 Oct 2014, 22:16

In reading up about the Meazzi/Binson magnetic drum construction on Google it's not outside the bounds of possibility to make one ......
Iron/soft steel core, aluminium outer ring, .1mm dia. constantan wire outer, subsequently lathe turned flat........ hmm

Edited on further reading.......
Last edited by ecca on 04 Oct 2014, 08:55, edited 3 times in total.
ecca
 

Re: So, which echo is the best ?

Postby Twang46 » 03 Oct 2014, 22:32

ecca wrote:In reading up about the Meazzi/Binson magnetic drum construction on Google it's not outside the bounds of possibility to make one ......
Iron/soft steel core, aluminium outer ring, 1mm dia. shellac wire outer, subsequently lathe turned flat........ hmm


Some of the turntables of yesteryear had such drums on a spindle that the drive belt fitted around to drive an idler wheel

Something like a old Garrard perhaps might be a good place to start looking for ideas

Interesting Hmmm........
Twang46
 

Re: So, which echo is the best ?

Postby ecca » 04 Oct 2014, 08:18

Can't quite figure out how the 1mm wire winding is terminated. Is it just a shorted turn or does it come out somewhere on a commutator ?
Where's an Amanda when you want one ?
ecca
 

Re: So, which echo is the best ?

Postby phil kelly » 04 Oct 2014, 08:31

roger bayliss wrote:I always thought that the head volumes on the F and J were different to the Meazzi Echomatic 2 ?

On the Meazzi Echomatic 2, I think the last head (longest delay) is loudest whilst the F and the J had the first head the loudest producing a kind of slap echo at the start of the repeats. The F and J would produce this first echo then the remaining heads would halo on after it, where as the EM2 would produce the loudest echo last and the halo would come before it. Two different types of sound and operation. Wonderful Land clearly has EM2 delay sound. The very early stuff had the slap echo type of sound (with halo) .

Regarding the echo on the records prior to Hank getting his first echo units I believe that is reel to reel slap tape echo done by studio engineers by using two tape reels and setting up a delay between the two. This was a popular way to obtain slap echo in the early days.

Might be wrong but that is what I believe a present.


The head volumes on the Echomatic 1 F and J machines were pretty much the same but differed from the model 2.
On the F and J the first heads in the chain were the highest in level decreasing in volume as you moved away from the record head with the last being the quietest. With the meazzis dependant on their design you would have the main regen heads, on the model F being 4 and 5 , i think maybe head 2 as well perhaps , the J being 2, 5 and 6, the model 2 being head 4,
On the model 2 the first two heads were high in level , the 3rd head at a slightly less volume then an increase in vol for the 4th head ( regen ) , as is known the first 3 preset playback heads could be variable in volume via the 10 k pot affixed to the speed control.

Prior to Hank using the echomatics i think it was reveb and not slap echo from the abbey road chamber.
Phil.
Last edited by phil kelly on 04 Oct 2014, 11:03, edited 1 time in total.
phil kelly
 
Posts: 187
Joined: 18 Sep 2009, 16:54

Re: So, which echo is the best ?

Postby Billyboygretsch » 04 Oct 2014, 08:37

Wonder why Bruce had a chair beside his amp ? Should have Jet had " the Shadows" on his amp like the others or was he making plans .
Billyboygretsch
 
Posts: 1030
Joined: 14 Nov 2012, 21:15
Location: Bedfordshire

Re: So, which echo is the best ?

Postby ecca » 04 Oct 2014, 08:49

Billyboygretsch wrote:Wonder why Bruce had a chair beside his amp ? Should have Jet had " the Shadows" on his amp like the others or was he making plans .


So he could sit down........
ecca
 

PreviousNext

Return to Guitars and Gear

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests

Ads by Google
These advertisements are selected and placed by Google to assist with the cost of site maintenance.
ShadowMusic is not responsible for the content of external advertisements.