Re Catalinbread Echorec . . . . .

[dave robinson]

I have had several questions since I revealed that I purchased one of these and have the following to say after being asked if it's better than this or that - the bottom line is it's all down to the operator, but here's what I think.


Is it better than a Quadraverb? Well it's identical sounding to a Binson Echorec which was largely used by HBM for live work in the sixties and at that time The Shadows sounded the best I ever heard them live.
The Q20 & Q2 are flawed, in as much as they don't match the input signal of a guitar, thus spoiling the tone of the instrument before we have even started! Hank's Q20 spoiled the 2004 reunion DVD and distorted for part of it until it was realised and adjusted at the recorded concert. i know that to be fact as Warren Bennett was in on the mixing and he told me that this was the problem. Hank no longer uses EFTP or the Q20.

Because it is dedicated to the guitar, I found that the Quad GT is by far the best Alesis unit for our purposes, but I no longer use mine as I have the ESE Echomatic, etap2hw, Catalinbread and Magicstommp. Played through an amp I would place them in that order, although etap and Catilinbread are equal with thE ESE having a very slight edge - the difference there being that Etap2hw specialises in Meazzi sounds and Catalinbread is the Binson.

The thing to keep in mind though is the operator of the kit. I can get a good early sound out of any of those units but I have seen people with the same kit who can't seem to succeed.

In my solo act I am using a Vox Tonelab SX which is routed through my Bose PA rig, which sounds a highly unlikely combination to achieve a Shadows sound, but it is almost identical to the sound of my amp and echo box - whichever one I use.

[roger bayliss]

I tend to agree with what you have said Dave ... the new valve based Eccamatic (etap2HW based valve preamped) is also very good and best described as a warmer sounding etap2HW demoed at our club a few times now.

[Didier]

The Q20 & Q2 are flawed, in as much as they don't match the input signal of a guitar, thus spoiling the tone of the instrument before we have even started! Hank's Q20 spoiled the 2004 reunion DVD and distorted for part of it until it was realised and adjusted at the recorded concert. i know that to be fact as Warren Bennett was in on the mixing and he told me that this was the problem.

Hank's guitar wasn't plugged directly to the Q20, but through wireless transmitter, which eliminated improper impedance matching problems. As fas as I know, the problem came from the Q20 volume input which was set too high, and caused overload distortion. This was corrected for the second part of the concert.
But unfortunatly the distotion is noticeable on several tunes from the first part, both on the DVD and Blu Ray, particularly the opening and ending chords on Kon-Tiki.
I attended a "Final Tour" concert in 2005 at the Paris "Grand Rex", and there was no such distortion problem.

Hank no longer uses EFTP or the Q20.

He used the TVS3 for the "Final Reunion" 2009/2010 tour.

Didier
P.S. all my wishes for better health.

[dave robinson]

Thanks Didier, I coming through it OK.

[MickB]

Heyup Dave
Glad you are doing well.Keep it up.
Mick

[Terry B]

The Q20 & Q2 are flawed, in as much as they don't match the input signal of a guitar, thus spoiling the tone of the instrument before we have even started! Hank's Q20 spoiled the 2004 reunion DVD and distorted for part of it until it was realised and adjusted at the recorded concert. i know that to be fact as Warren Bennett was in on the mixing and he told me that this was the problem. Hank no longer uses EFTP or the Q20.

At last! I've been saying this about my Zoom RFX2200 ever since I got it! The first thing I noticed as soon as I plugged it in was a drop off in the top end giving the guitar a very bland sound. All the growl of a Strat - GONE! No amount of graphic equalising and tone controlling can put back what is lost at the front end input. It's the old addage - garbage in, garbage out! Not sure about the wireless thing - you're still inputting a line level signal into a mic input!

[Didier]

The Q20 & Q2 are flawed, in as much as they don't match the input signal of a guitar, thus spoiling the tone of the instrument before we have even started! Hank's Q20 spoiled the 2004 reunion DVD and distorted for part of it until it was realised and adjusted at the recorded concert. i know that to be fact as Warren Bennett was in on the mixing and he told me that this was the problem. Hank no longer uses EFTP or the Q20.

At last! I've been saying this about my Zoom RFX2200 ever since I got it! The first thing I noticed as soon as I plugged it in was a drop off in the top end giving the guitar a very bland sound. All the growl of a Strat - GONE! No amount of graphic equalising and tone controlling can put back what is lost at the front end input. It's the old addage - garbage in, garbage out!

When first sold programmed by EFTP the Zoom RFX2000 was delivered with an effect pedal (I think it was an overdrive one) which was used only as an impedance matching device).

Not sure about the wireless thing - you're still inputting a line level signal into a mic input!

It's not a problem of level matching, but a problem of impedance matching. On both the RFX2000 and 2200 you have a mic input on the front, and a line input at the back. Any guitar pedal with all settings to neutral can be used as an impedance matching preamp in this case (the same with a Q2/Q20). Of course a wireless receiver will do the same.

Didier

[dave robinson]

This discussion can run on and on, but the facts are very clear , the input on all of the Quads apart from the GT do NOT complement an electric guitar at all. The character of the guitar is lost at the input point, or it was on mine anyway.

Over the years this has resulted in all of those unnecessary arguments that we had over THAT SOUND on the old MSN site, where we used to argue black was blue over the issue. Since I rid myself of the blasted Alesis and Zoom things, my guitars sound exactly as they should, it isn't the radio transmitter that was ever a problem for me, it was those Alesis & Zooms. The GT was OK but I still get a better signal and the pickup response much better when plugged in to my ESE Echomatic, Etap2hw and Catalinbread. The Magicstomp is OK but does add a deviation in the tone, adding some top end and lacking 'warmth' that is dis-pleasing at times. I'm afraid we were brainwashed with all the talk of what Hank was using at the time. As much as I love Hank I'm afraid his sound over that period was just about tolerable at the time if you were like me who wanted to hear the 'dirt' and attitude of the early Stratocaster and echo sounds.
Nowadays I hear the exact sound every time myself or Danny Martin pick up a guitar and play together.
Peace.

[duesenburg man]

hi dave' good news to hear you are doing well, thanks for the help with the catlinbread echorec i have been using it now for quite a while and realy like it , many thanks stewart.

[Didier]

This discussion can run on and on, but the facts are very clear , the input on all of the Quads apart from the GT do NOT complement an electric guitar at all. The character of the guitar is lost at the input point, or it was on mine anyway.

That's why you shouldn't plug the guitar directly to a Quad (apart the GT which is the only having an input specifically designed for guitar), you must use a device working as a impedance matching preamp. The same for Zoom 2000 and 2200.

Didier