Didier !
Merci pour ton aide...
Hi Phil, Hi Jim, Hi all,
Thank you very much for your last answer.
Some words about this photo of the "Cliff's J 200" found in this french magazine "Télé 7 Jours" and sent for me by Didier (Thank you again Didier):
This original document was a "poster" printed on a "double page".
Due to the size (A4) of my scanner, I was just able to duplicate (in one time) one half on this poster(!)
So it's the reason why, today, Didier and I post you only the half where we see the J 200.
But believe me ! The hands you see are those of Cliff !
On the original photo it's also possible to read a part of the serial number of this J 200 on its "oval orange label": "A ??119".
As you can see on the photo the "original" finish of the top is : "Sunburst" (Nothing else)
So ?
When Cliff (or/and you Phil) says :
1) "In earlier comments he doesn't remember ever OWNIING a sunburst one.
Answer :
If this J200 above is not a Sunburst finish what it is ?!
2) "The one that he personally bought (as he tells it) was ordered new from the Gibson factory sometime in 1959.
It had a wine red top with mahogany stained back and sides, with chrome grover tuners."
Answer :
Sorry for him, but compared with the Gibson 'official" production, what Cliff says is impossible if you speak about a J200 model made in 59.
Why ? For many reasons such as:
- About the "finish":
Cliff speaks about a "Wine Red top finish with stained mahogany back and sides":
If his "own" J200 has been made in 1959 (or during the 50's or the 60's...) this "Wine red" finish for the top did NOT exist at this time, nomore that the "mahogany stained" for back and sides...
The (uniform) "Wine red" finish appears with the Les Paul Standard ré-issues in the beginning of the 70's...
During the 50's ans 60's, the TWO ONLY possible Gibson finishes for the J 200, were "Sunburst" or "Blonde".
Sunburst 2 tone or Sunburst "cherrish" like this J 200 :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1958-1959-Gib ... 20cc3831bf, thank you Hank2k for this link)
but certainely not and never: "Wine Red" for the top...
- About the tuning keys:
Keep in mind that the J200 was the "top of the line" of the acoustic flat top Gibson guitars.
And like the "Super 400" top of the line of the arch top Gibson guitars, in addition of the "fine materials" (!) for made all these guitars, on them the hardware was (ALWAYS !) Gold Plated...
So If Cliff ordered a 1959 J200, when he received it in England the tuning keys on this J200 were Gold Plated (Nothing else !)
If you choose now (and why not ?) the way of "Two differents J 59 J200", I'm SURE that if one of these two J 200 is fitted today with Nickel (or Chrome) Grovers it's because the original GOLD plated tuning keys have been changed.
May be the "second one has original Gold plated Kluxon changed with time by a set of "Chrome" Grovers"...
Or may be the original tuning keys were gold plated Grovers changed by a new set "Chrome" ?
And I don't see an other possibility !
In resume:
Sorry again, but the description done by Cliff about his "own" 1959 J 200 is all the more "curious" or totally wrong.
Remember that :
- It's only possible to find an "Open moutache bridge" on the J 200 since 1937 to 1961.
- If the Gibson logo is "modernistic" the guitar is post 1947
- The wood of the back and the sides of a kind guitar is Maple (and ONLY Maple)
- The finish is "Sunburst" (2 tone : dark marroon to yellow or Sunburst Cherrish) or "Blonde".
- And during (a part of 1958) mainly 1959 and 1960 (and a part of 61) you can find GOLD Grovers for the tuning keys...
Take a look there :
http://www.gbase.com/gear/find?gs=y&fy= ... word=j+200You can find through the photos of J200 made between 1950 and 1960 what i described above.
What else can I say ?
If Cliff could speak about an original J 200 59 Sunburst, and an second J 200 (early 60's) Blonde.
Yes I'll agreed with him, because :
Hank played a J 200 Blonde in 62 ? (63) (A photo in one of the "Shadows Guitar Favotite Books" shows this J200 Blonde)
I can't find the photo but it seems to me that the tuning keys was not a set of gold Grovers on this one ?
If the tuning keys are gold Kluxon two possibilities :
- A J 200 Blonde made before 59 = Gold Kluson with pearl buttons
- A J 200 Blonde made after 60 fitted from the factory with Gold Kluxon with gold metal buttons.
Or and then !
May be, in practice, it's THIS original Blonde J 200 on which the original Gold Kluson tuning keys had been changed for Grovers Chrome ?!!!
But if the two (different) J 200 (if there was two J 200 ?) are today in "Blonde" finish the only thing sure is that one of the two was originaly "Sunburst". (See the "Télé 7 Jours" poster !)
Phil !
If you are able to meet Cliff again (first say hello for me !) and try to confirm, on "his" today Blonde J200, if (yes or no) the serial number written on the oval orange label inside begins by "A" then 2 digits and finishes by 119...
The "truth" is just may be here ?!
On the same way, I sent a mail to my friend André Duchossoir.
Unfortunatly if André has the complete records concerning the Gibson "electrics guitars" he can't give us the "birth certificate" (!) of this Cliff's Sunburst acoustic J 200...
But André confirms that, for 1959 and with a serial number type : "A ?? 119", there are four possibilities:
A-29119 = février 1959
A-30119 = mai 1959
A-31119 = septembre 1959
A-32119 = décembre 1959
So, I sincerely think that the solution (or A solution !) of this question, is to look for (try to looking for !) the serial number inside the (today own) Cliff's J 200 (refin) Blonde fitted with gold plated Grovers...
If you can do that for us Phil you're the King !
Amitiés à tous
Patrice
