Damage on 34346?

Hints and tips on getting the sound you want.
Includes anything to do with Fender, Burns and other guitars; playing techniques;
also amps, effects units, recording equipment and any other musical accessories.

Re: Polepieces

Postby keithmantle » 04 Jul 2012, 09:28

abstamaria wrote:Hi Keith, on your CRS, are the G and high E poles the same height? That seems to be case from the photos Geoff posted. And also with the PUs Gary posted in post 14. My first impression was that the G pole was higher.

Andy

Hi Andy , the E and G poles are about 1mm above the pup cover and the B about 1 mm below, regards Keith
keithmantle
 

Re: Damage on 34346?

Postby roger bayliss » 04 Jul 2012, 11:20

The plain G usually needs lifting on normal vintage stagger and I think the modern lower G pole is to account for that so that would possibly explain why there is a tendency to lower the E B G poles on some of the modern PU's ... however some are made that are flat across the 6 poles.. and some have slightly lower G and D poles than vintage stagger but they all work ! Setup I think is what gets it to work.
American Pro Series Strat 2017, G&L S500 Natural Ash
User avatar
roger bayliss
 
Posts: 1784
Joined: 15 Sep 2009, 00:15

Pickups

Postby abstamaria » 04 Jul 2012, 12:44

Many thanks, Keith.

Andy
User avatar
abstamaria
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: 18 Sep 2009, 03:27

Stagger yet again.

Postby abstamaria » 05 Jul 2012, 10:59

Let me restate what I summarized above, based on what I understand. There are perhaps five stagger styles:

1. The "vintage" stagger, with the D and G polepieces highest, the B sunk into the cover, and the high E just slightly above or flush with the cover. This seems to have been introduced in 1956 or perhaps earlier (see 3 below), discontinued in 1974, but resurrected in the 1980s. What might hav e required the stagger initially was flat-wound strings, including the wound third. The reason for the resurrection, says Fender, is the advent of brighter-sounding wound strings and new (I assume flatter) fingerboard radii.

2. The zero stagger, pointed out by Chris in Charlie Hall's forum and noted by Fender below, where the pole pieces are level across the width (and Chris says protrude from the pickup cover by 1.9mm), introduced in 1974 and still found on models such as the Highway 1. 

3. The “custom” (as Geoff notes) stagger, with G, B, and E flush with the cover, introduced in 2000.

4. The unusual (“hybrid”?) stagger found on Hank’s guitar, which is similar to the vintage stagger, but has the G pole pushed downward so that it matches the high E in height. The G polepiece is “pushed in" because it protrudes from the bottom of the pickup. According to Gary, these may have been usual on 1954-55 Strats.

5. The 5th style is identical to #4 and is found in the Oasis CRS Strats (which copy Hank’s Strat), but is different in that all the polepieces are flush with the bottom of the pickup (i.e, the G polepiece is not “pushed-in). The E and G poles are about 1mm above the pup cover and the B about 1 mm below, according to Keith.

I hope that’s correct.

Fender’s site explains the need for “stagger.” You probably have all read their explanation (link is below), but let me quote it for your convenience:

“One of the biggest is that since string height corresponds to a guitar's fingerboard radius, the strings themselves vary in their height above the pickups. Their arc across the width of the fingerboard results in the middle strings (D and G in particular) sitting higher above the pickups than the bass and treble strings, so it makes sense to raise their polepieces a bit in order to ensure consistent volume.

"We also mentioned historical precedent. Staggered-polepiece pickups were standard on Stratocasters for 20 years before they were replaced by straight-across-flush-pole pickups in 1974. They didn't come back until the early 1980s. The Telecaster received staggered polepieces in the 1960s.

"Also, light-gauge and round-wound guitar strings didn't exist when the Stratocaster was introduced in 1954. At that time, the third string (G) was flat-wound like the E, A and D strings, but its output was lower, so Fender compensated by raising the polepiece under that string. Once light-gauge sets with unwound G strings became available years later, the same staggering arrangement was no longer necessary. The later introduction of brighter-sounding round-wound strings also affected polepiece height preferences. And since fingerboard radius options have changed since the 1950s, so too have pickup staggering arrangements. It's not at all uncommon today for polepiece arrangements to be referred to as vintage, hybrid or custom staggers."

So sorry for what is probably redundant and already well-known, but I hope this is useful in the meantime and will provide a starting point for a later, more accurate summary.

Andy
Last edited by abstamaria on 19 Oct 2019, 17:40, edited 7 times in total.
User avatar
abstamaria
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: 18 Sep 2009, 03:27

Re: Damage on 34346?

Postby Geoff Alderton LH » 05 Jul 2012, 20:17

Hi Andy.
Not quite correct .
Your 2 should read year 2000 not 1974 for the modern custom stagger.
Regards Geoff.
Geoff Alderton LH
 

Staggers

Postby abstamaria » 06 Jul 2012, 00:00

Thanks, Geoff. I made the correction you suggested and added the "no stagger" pickup, just to complete the summary.

Andy
User avatar
abstamaria
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: 18 Sep 2009, 03:27

Stagger one last time

Postby abstamaria » 06 Jul 2012, 08:47

Here is a pickup from an early Stratocaster, made in the fall of 1954. Does it look like it has 34346’s pickup stagger? It seems so to my eyes. If true, this supports Gary’s statement that the stagger is typical for the 54-55 Strats.

stra5414.jpg
(30.5 KiB) Downloaded 4705 times


However, look at the backside. The polepieces seem flush to me and not “pushed-in” toward the cavity. Or it could be the protrusion is not evident in the photo.

stra5412.jpg
(31.82 KiB) Downloaded 4705 times


Both photos are from this page.

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/strat54.html

The custom pickup manufacturers have information on staggers, too. A good one is this one.

http://angeltone.com/pickupinfo.htm

Frankly, the more I read the more it seems the summary I attempted above is too simplistic! I may have also hijacked this page too much already so will leave the topic!

Andy
User avatar
abstamaria
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: 18 Sep 2009, 03:27

Re: Damage on 34346?

Postby John M » 07 Jul 2012, 19:30

I usually only stagger when I've had too many G & T's ! However, I digress... I have a 56 NOS Strat with the aforementioned stagger and I did notice that my g string (the guitars, not mine) was much louder than the others.
By using a soft wooden dowel gently tapped the pole piece down to level with the pick up cover and this has dropped the output from that string to a more manageable level.
i think, after visiting several sites, that the higher polepiece position is for wirewound g strings which need a slightly more powerful magnetic field to produce the required output and balance against the other srtrings. Of course with the majority of string kits using a plain g string the output of this string now overpowers the others.
John M
 

Re: Damage on 34346?

Postby keithmantle » 08 Jul 2012, 09:26

John M wrote:I usually only stagger when I've had too many G & T's ! However, I digress... I have a 56 NOS Strat with the aforementioned stagger and I did notice that my g string (the guitars, not mine) was much louder than the others.
By using a soft wooden dowel gently tapped the pole piece down to level with the pick up cover and this has dropped the output from that string to a more manageable level.
i think, after visiting several sites, that the higher polepiece position is for wirewound g strings which need a slightly more powerful magnetic field to produce the required output and balance against the other srtrings. Of course with the majority of string kits using a plain g string the output of this string now overpowers the others.

Very risky John tapping the pole down.56 NOS pups are rare.
keithmantle
 

Re: Damage on 34346?

Postby bor64 » 08 Jul 2012, 13:11

John, you're lucky you didn't ended up with a broken coil !! :shock: Like Keith said 56 NOS are not common ;)

I post here two pic's of the main subject in this thread, the famous 34346,you can clearly see the different staggering of the G pole piece.
Pictures made at SM a few years ago....
Compare it with the not so famous aug 58 f red 026xxx on the other picture,that guitar is loaded with the stock pick-up staggering of that time.
If you wonder the string gauge it's 14-62 and the guitar plays like a dream..... ;) or is it that I got used to it after 34 years :mrgreen:
Attachments
58stagger.jpg
(42.29 KiB) Downloaded 4619 times
59stagger1.jpg
(54.62 KiB) Downloaded 4619 times
59stagger.jpg
(51.39 KiB) Downloaded 4619 times
bor64
 

PreviousNext

Return to Guitars and Gear

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests

Ads by Google
These advertisements are selected and placed by Google to assist with the cost of site maintenance.
ShadowMusic is not responsible for the content of external advertisements.