Fiesta Red???

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Re: Fiesta Red???

Postby dave robinson » 07 Jan 2012, 00:55

Iain_P wrote:Since the Shadows (1958-68) used mainly white guitars, I have never understood the fascination with fiesta red/pink/whatever.

However, if you want your guitar to look "right", how about mixing up your own paint until you get the colour you recognise as FR and then spray your guitar with it? :)

Iain


For me the most enjoyable and best time was in the early sixties with 'Apache' through to 'Dance On' , the majority of stuff recorded at the time of the red Fenders'. The white guitars coincided with a slide into less popular times and although very nice, it has to be said that the prime time for The Shadows for me, was the Hank, Bruce, Jet & Tony days.
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Re: Fiesta Red???

Postby ecca » 07 Jan 2012, 07:46

Having seen them in the flesh in 1960 at Cannock this pink colour was burned into my brain for many decades.
This was the fascination with the colourand all other reds were rejected until I saw the proper pink in 2000.
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Re: Fiesta Red???

Postby Didier » 07 Jan 2012, 10:23

dave robinson wrote:
Didier wrote:Different shades of fiesta red sampled from existing guitars :

Image

Made by a member of our French Shads' forum, using professional tools. He worked in the paint business and repainted many guitar bodies for himself or friends.

Didier


I fully agree that there can be variations in paint shade of the same colour, having worked in the industry back in the sixties, but are any of these samples from an original untouched 1959 model? If not, I respectfully suggest that it is futile to use these examples when we have the real thing to look at.
After all, it doesn't get any closer than the real thing . . . does it ? :)

These samples are not from 1959 Strats, but from more recent guitars which are all supposed to be fiesta red...
Keep in mind that in the fifties, two batchs of the same colour often had slighly different shades. This was a well known fact by those who worked in the car repaint business.

Didier

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Re: Fiesta Red???

Postby keithmantle » 07 Jan 2012, 11:57

I have a 1993 62 re-issue from America and the original price tag on which it says, List $1399.99,Forsale $979.99 Limited Edition 'Salmon Pink'
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Re: Fiesta Red???

Postby Bill Bowley » 08 Jan 2012, 06:25

As it is written in the very informative website at: http://home.provide.net/~cfh/fenderc.html



"The English "Salmon Pink" Story and Nail Holes and Sunbursts.


In the early 1960s, due to the popularity of Hank Marvin of the band the Shadows, the Stratocaster was THE guitar to own in the United Kingdom. In 1961, Fender was imported by Jennings (the makers of Vox amps), and in 1962 Fender was also imported by Selmer. Both Jennings and Selmer gave way to Arbiters as the sole UK distributor in the Summer of 1965 (perhaps because Fender didn't like having their products distributed by successful UK amp makers). But all the importers seemed to have brought Fender guitars into the UK *without* cases, probably because local cases were available for less money than the Tolex Fender cases (the Canadian Fender importers did the same thing). This in turn increased the possibility of damaged finishes as the guitar were imported into England, which helps lend itself to the following story.
Urban legand has it that English guitar shops found it easier to sell guitars that looked like Hank Marvin's Fiesta Red Stratocaster, than the standard sunburst finished Strat. Therefore, a lot of Fender Strats were rumored to be refinished from Sunburst to red on arrival in the UK to match Hank Marvin's guitar. The resulting color used by the Fender UK importers was not as red as Fender's factory "Fiesta Red", and was more of a "Salmon Pink" color. This of course added more to the confusion about what exactly Fiesta Red was, and the Salmon Pink color rumor.

Most of the red UK painted Strats where done right over the original sunburst. Also the UK painters did not seem to use the "nail hole" method of painting these guitars (lucky for us). Hence these 1960s refinished-when-new UK Strats will usually have painted nail holes, red-over-sunbuarst, and non-Tolex/weird cases. Therefore they are pretty easy to identify.

So is this "English refinished Fiesta Red" story rumor or fact? I personally tend to believe the story, as I received an email from an english gentlemen that claimed he worked for Selmer in the UK, and he in fact did some of the refinish work. I also owned a red-over-sunburst 1961 Strat in a Selmer case. But that's the only real proof I have that the story is true. Otherwise the jury is still out on this. But if the story is true, regardless, these English-refinished-red Strats are *not* factory original Fiesta Red guitars, and hence must be considered a "refin". Now if the nail holes are clear and present, I would consider it "original". But if there's no nail holes (or painted nail holes), by definition it's refinished and not original."


I tend to believe that -Brits have always had a tendency to 'change things'! :roll:
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Re: Fiesta Red???

Postby dave robinson » 08 Jan 2012, 12:26

I too have seen evidence to support Bill's previous post regarding English Strat refinishes. It's cut and dried for me, though some will insist on raking over the ashes to try and alter history.
Our example of the 1959 fiesta red Strat is a factory finish and was owned by the American blues guitarist Taj Mahal, known to be used on Paul Simon sessions and has the tell tale markings of an original paint job described by Bill. This guitar is the same colour as quite a few others that I have seen during my career and I have seen other red Strats' along the way that looked 'pinker', which were probably re-finishes.
It's an interesting discussion, but I am happy in the knowledge that I have witnessed both sides of the story regarding the colour, to the point of making it boring to repeatedly go over it.

Bottom line, yes there were many Strats' refinished in various degrees of red by dealers back in the early sixties. We have here an original untouched 1959 fiesta red Strat that matches the USA '62 reissue perfectly, I have had them side by side and photographed them and there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind about what the colour of fiesta red was intended to be.
I think the Japanese were responsible for the more orange tinted version of fiesta red back in the early eighties with the Tokai & Squier models - I have an 82 Squier Precision Bass in fiesta red and by comparison to the USA fiesta red on the '59 Strat there is more of an orange than pink hue to it, just like many of the Strats' seen around today. :)
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Re: Fiesta Red???

Postby Iain Purdon » 08 Jan 2012, 13:30

Is there, then, a way forward here? If the correct colour can be identified precisely, could not a paint blender make up a supply to the exact specification and sell it round the commmunity to those of us who would like our instruments to be that colour?

Iain
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Re: Fiesta Red???

Postby JimN » 08 Jan 2012, 13:37

Some of the alternative red finishes manifested in the UK in the 1960s were on Fender models with matching headstocks, mainly the Jaguar, Jazzmaster and Jazz Bass.

It would have been near-impossible for these pinks (Coral Pink is my guess) to have been the result of the legendary Selmer refinishes (because of the under-the-lacquer decals). Neither were those models in particular demand in red as opposed to other finishes. In the period,all three are most commonly encountered in three-colour sunburst.

There were plenty of Fender custom colours of the time which simply never or rarely made it to the UK as imports via Selmer or Jennings. Shoreline Gold, Emerald Mist, even black, for instance (there plenty of others, including LPB and CAR). Thus Coral Pink, never mentioned here at the time, would have been taken as "red" on arrival. When you see the two colours CP and FR side-by-side in good original condition, the memory is certainly jogged. My recollection is that Crane's in Liverpool (then the city's main Fender dealer, though Hessy's occasionally had them in) were the ones where these Coral Pink examples were most often seen - "most often" meaning maybe half a dozen times during the first half of the decade.

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Re: Fiesta Red???

Postby Iain Purdon » 08 Jan 2012, 13:43

Perhaps we need two colours of paint then - to be called Shadows Red and Shadows Pink?
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Re: Fiesta Red???

Postby s4wgb » 08 Jan 2012, 14:10

How about my colour i had done in USA.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq13 ... fbuild.jpg
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