Scotland's devolution dilema

[Detailed Infinity]

Relying on the premise that anything can be posted in the Lounge forum have a chew on this article in today's Daily Mail. I'm 2nd generation Irish and Anglo Saxon for hundred's of years so I have no axe to grind and these words aren't mine. Makes sobering reading though for any Scots to think about before making the tick on the voting paper.

Bri.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2424713/Scots-MUST-vote-independence-Itll-save-rest-fortune-says-SIMON-HEFFER.html

[Paulps]

I wonder how many English people would, if given a vote, choose to give Scotland independence, whether the vote in Scotland is yes or no, especially after reading how much more is spent by Westminster, per head, on those north of the border.

[AlanMcKillop]

Sadly, you have the Labour party to blame for years and years of the benefit culture up here and with so many scroungers possibly voting (if they are not drunk or high) for Independence, it means there is no room for complacency. Fortunately, I'm a couple of years from retirement so an independant Scotland won't impact me the way it will others, but I for one, will vote for the Union to continue.

[George Geddes]

I'm a bit rusty on my political history, but it's in my mind that only two post-war elections have seen Labour secure a majority of seats in England and Wales, so they have relied on the Scottish Labour votes to secure a Westminster majority. An independent Scotland would have implications for the colour of future Westminster parliaments...

Personally, I have yet to be convinced of the arguments for independence, but there is still a year to go!

George

[stratmantd]

Typical Daily Mail garbage.

Taxpayers in Scotland pay more into the exchequer than we get back so Scotland is funding the UK, not the other way round as the tory press keep insisting. That is why they want to keep the UK; they can't afford to lose us.

Also, Labour can't win a general election without the Scottish votes so they want to keep the union too.

We have to put up with tory governments which have no mandate to govern Scotland because we did not vote for them. A strange thing as we seem to get over sentimental about the jacobite rebellion when the jacobites were tories.

Independence just means that we want to take control of our own lives, make our own mistakes, pay our own consequences. It has got nothing to do with anti-Englishness. Many scots on here (probably all of them) have people on this site who we consider as friends and vice versa. That is not going to change.

It was actually quite heartening a few years ago to see lots of St. George's Crosses being flown for sporting events supporting England. So much more sensible than flying the Union Flag.

Maybe we are over proud of our heritage but English people should be proud of their heritage too and not hide behind the union.

Whatever happens, we will let you keep our Queen.

[JimN]

In my honest opinion, it simply isn't up to people who happen to currently live in Scotland (whether Scottish or not) to make far-reaching constitutional decisions like this.

The rest of us (particularly including Scottish people living in England and Wales, of whom there are many) should have an equal say.

For what it's worth, giving the vote to the English and Welsh (in England and Wales) is Salmond's only hope. The Northern Irish wouldn't support him for reasons of their own (think about it). Alex might be surprised at the level of enthusiasm for his cause south of the border.

[George Geddes]

Tam

Sorry, I don't buy into this Braveheart, 'rise and be a nation again' stuff. Mr Salmond says Scotland should take its place in the councils of the world... Somewhere between San Marino and Senegal?

Apart from freedom to make our own mistakes, what are the concrete advantages of separation? That's what the Yes campaign has failed to explain, IMHO.

Jim has a point, but it's a non-starter, as it's exactly what Tam has said - the Yes campaign want Scotland to make its own choices. If the vote does go that way, however, I reckon it will take years to disentangle the Union. By which time Labour may well have regained control of the Scottish Parliament...

George

[stratmantd]

Sorry George,

I don't recollect having said anything that was "Braveheart" stuff but self-determination is up to us and not really anybody else.

The tories need Scotland's revenues and labour need our votes or they will never win at Westminster again. The "better together" campaign has been a tissue of lies from the beginning. They make up a new scare story every week and we all fall for them because it is easier to do nothing than actually get off our backsides and take control of our lives.

It doesn't really matter what the English and Welsh think; they are not the people being asked if they want their country to be independent. If they think that Scotland is getting more than its fair share then they should be glad to get shot of us.

The main reason that the Yes campaign is not getting its message across is that the press is firmly against it and doesn't report fairly.

Personally, I don't really care which way the vote goes except I hope that it give the UK government a good kick up the arse and that they start to actually work for the people of the country and not just themselves and their American overlords.

To the original poster, if you must read hackrags like the Daily Mail, please take what you read with a pinch of salt. Surely nobody wants to live in a country where the likes of Richard Littlejohn are taken seriously.

Rant over. I will post on this forum no more.

[AlanMcKillop]

Don't underestimate Soapy Salmond, he's trying everything, lowering the voting age and saying he will re-nationalise the Postal System if he gets a YES vote.

[anniv 63]

Mr Salmond according to polls of recent , is loosing support badly from more mature female voters, and professional classes
who are unconvinced by his economic arguments in support of independence.
Giving 16-17 year olds the vote- yes it really is Their future, they can listen to facts dished out in schools etc , but they haven't
lived long enough in decades of boom/bust !! to clearly decide as yet I.m.h.o.
Mr Salmonds government in Scotland gained power on the back of Shambolic policies of both Labour and Conservative, that impacted
on everyone employed or otherwise. His anti stance on successive Westminster Governments has always been evident to most observers.
Can any trust be put in any political agenda these days?
Certainly not on TV mud slinging debates and childish behaviour by so called mature adults!!!

Mike