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Everyone says that the echo should be the first in a chain sequence, and that makes sense if you have an echo and an amp, you would plug your guitar into the echo and then into the amp . . .

In my chain I use a boss equalizing pedal > Korg Ampworks modeling signal processor > eTaph2hw > Marshall reverb pedal . . . IN THAT ORDER. I plug my guitar into the boss equalizer pedal. Somehow, that works better for me.

My question is, in terms of electronics and in terms of sound, what is the difference between putting the echo first in a chain, or putting it for example third, like I do.

Bojan

Ideally -though it is certainly not always possible - the order is this:

Guitar
Distortion unit (if in use - and it may be the amplifier's input stages)
Volume pedal (whether for use as an effect or control)
Modulation effects (eg, chorus, flanging)
Delay effects
Reverb effects
Amplifier (whether front end or power stage).

Some amps, as you know, allow the front end and power stages to be used separately, via FX send/return sockets. If there is no such facility (as with the majority of quality Vox and Fender amps), then "distortion unit" means fuzz or overdrive.

Obviously, the volume pedal has to come after the distortion or overdrive and equally obviously, echo, and then delay, have to be last.

If using, say, distortion, what you want is echoed distortion, not distorted echo...

Hi Bojan,

I might have swapped the order of the eTap2hw and the Ampworks but, if you like the sound you're getting, stick with it, otherwise you'll end up like me, spending all your time fiddling with the technology and not enough time playing the guitar

Exactly Phil.
Too much theory sometimes.

Err...I use a guitar , a lead, and an amp. then a power point, plugged in that order....mind you I can twist a knob or two on the amp for echo, reverb etc


Keep signal chains SIMPLE!

(At least on live gigs)

ecca wrote:Exactly Phil.
Too much theory sometimes.

Thanks guys. Err . . . actually, I was looking for theory

Boing, you're asking for black and white answers to a very grey area.
As long as inputs aren't overloaded it's whatever floats your boat.

I have an eye on Charlie Hall's new echo unit when it appears but am concerned about it apparently not being recommended to use a send and return loop, in my case on the 'Stockton' (Acetone) amp. When I went 'direct' into this amp with my current Zoom 2000 unit I got too much 'white noise'. Any help/comments appreciated as I'm a dunce with this level of guitar technology.

Bojan wrote:Thanks guys. Err . . . actually, I was looking for theory

Ah, a man after my own heart who wants to know 'why' as well as 'how' !

The first assumption has to be that we are talking about using the amp in 'clean' mode. We are not trying to overdrive the input.

This is because repeat echoes and reverb sound awful if distorted. This means these effects should be the last thing in the chain before the amp input,unless you use a foot volume pedal, in which case that goes before the amp input. I'm a big fan of the foot volume pedal - no fiddling with guitar controls and taking your eyes off the audience when playing live. Also, if you have a lot of effects and there is a bit of background noise, tip back the pedal and that all disappears at quiet moments. Lastly, tip back the pedal at the break and you don't have to run back from the bar when the guitar takes off into howlround half-way through the meat raffle.

The reason for putting the echo in front of the reverb is to imagine a big hall with hard walls. Hit a single note. The first thing it does is to bounce off the walls and back to you as discreet echos. Then those echoes bounce around, reducing in volume and merging into each other (reverb).

Before the echo come add-on effects such as tremolo, phasing, chorus. They are all adding a variation to the guitar signal, which can be clean or distorted.

Ahead of them comes the equaliser, to vary the sound (whether clean or distorted) before the add-on effects.

Right at the front comes a distortion unit (if you use one). Whether distortion or edge, it changes the fundamental sound of the guitar. It says what sort of a guitar sound you want to make (even if you are going to modify it with effects later in the chain) so it has to come first.

So that's my theory. Guitar - distortion - EQ - Effects - echo - reverb - amp.

Ray