Modelling amps - why have anything else?

[Iain Purdon]

But surely if you get a brilliant sound as I do with my Valvetronix 15w in your bedroom, you must get a similar sound if you put it through a mixing desk on a PA system that the whole band is through?

I thought the same, Hugh, which is why I was so disappointed when I tried it live. Perhaps the "authenticity" was only discernible as such at lower levels and the compromises only came to life at stage volume? I don't know!
I'd love to find out though because the less gear I have to hump around at gigs the better!!

[RayL]

Play a CD in the car when it is standing still, then play it again when you are travelling at 70mph down the motorway. You play it louder on the motorway and the road noise, wind noise and engine noise all mask the detail and change the tonal balance. The same thing happens when you take a guitar and amp from a room in a house at low volume to a large space at high volume with other sounds happening at the same time.

One of the skills of sound mixing and mastering for pop music is to produce a record that will be acceptable and recognisable on anything from tiny speakers in plastic boxes to full-range monitor speakers and in all sorts of situations - anything from ear-shattering discos to background music in homes or restaurants. It's a very clever trick to achieve.

Ray

[Iain Purdon]

Spot on, very well put!

[Vincent]

I remember being in Bedford town centre during 2010 and hearing this great sound floating in the air and it turned out to be this guy,probably in his late twenties, with a Hank Marvin signature Strat playing 'Midnight' 'Wonderful Land' and so on.
It was all coming out of a Roland RX Cube-with 4 little speakers and running off batteries. He had the volume and gain fully open and turned on to the Fender setting. I later bought one of these and I can say that the Brit Combo setting (which is VOX) is more authentic in character and tone than three other Vox amps I have owned which were a Pathfinder 15, Cambridge and the first of the Valve reactor series.

[noelford]

Yes, Vincent, I agree, that Roland is a great little amp. I've had one a while, just for simple plug-in-and-playing when I don't want to bother with my main kit. Easy to move around the house or just drop in at someone else's house for a jam. Batteries last ages, too. The other day I tried running it into my Bose L1 Compact and it sounded absolutely great and would definitely make a good back-up should my Pod X3 Pro/Quad GT have a problem!

[Martin Payne]

Regarding the difference in sound with modelling amps between bedrooms and live gigs, there's an interesting article to read here that may (or may not) help.

http://www.valvetronix.net/forums/how-t ... -t192.html

Personally, I really like my little AD30VT which I use in my small studio and have used in large-ish bar environments to equal effect.

Martin

[Vincent]

One reason a modelling amp can sound close to or better than the original is the EQ. Vox AC30s,then and now, do not have a middle setting-just bass and treble. Middle makes a big difference as you can st it to get that hollow sound so useful for that early sixties tone.

[rogera]

Whilst I agree that modelling technology is improving fast and can be very useful, I fail to understand your statement that they can improve upon the original sounds created by amps such as the Vox AC30.

Almost all of the early 60s guitar tones were achieved using Vox AC30 amps which as you said do not have (and never needed) a middle tone control.

If you were determined to achieve a particular early 60s guitar sound then I can't think of any more likely way of succeeding than using the original equipment.

[Bojan]

You are right, of course Roger, and what you say makes perfect sense.

But perhaps Vincent was referring to the recorded sound where the studio may have added some additional equalization, with an accent on the mids, because we all know that the live sound of the Shadows did not sound exactly like their recorded sound . . . and perhaps one of the times they really got close was the Kingston concert and other live shows in the early years. But then later on, they sounded totally different because Hank didn't want to sound like in the early years and developed a different, more modern sound -- which is another story. But a lot of us still cherish that hauning early sound of the Shadows that we call THAT SOUND, which is actually the recorded sound of the shadows, and perhaps this modern amp modelling technology helps recreate that recorded sound. I hope this makes sense.

[Iain Purdon]

Well put. It's the recorded sound many of us strive for and reproducing it live is tough whatever equipment you use.