First Cliff / Shadows recording using a Burns

[Billyboygretsch]

Probably asked before. What was the first recording using the Burns guitar.

[dave robinson]

I think it was 'Don't Talk To Him' 1963 - Hank used the Double Six.

[Iain Purdon]

I am sure that is the first appearance of the Double Six but, in view of the well-aired debate about Marvin prototypes being tried on earlier Shads recordings, I wonder whether a similar case could be made for some of the earlier Cliff sessions.

[dave robinson]

I'm certain that the Double Six appeared on TV before the Marvins', though I'm happy to stand corrected.

[Billyboygretsch]

That's the one I thought of too. It states in the Burns book that the Double Six and Marvins were first produced in 1964. The first Double Six had split sound pick ups which were the predecessors to the Rez o Matik as fitted to the Marvin. I wonder if that first number recorded had split sound pick ups. I also wonder if the prototype Marvins used Split Sound ? If Don't talk to him was the first and released in 1963 that would be before the Marvins were released. So what other numbers in 1963 might a prototype Marvin be used on ?

[Billyboygretsch]

Meant to state that the earliest Double six seemed to use split sound circuitry as well.

[StuartD]

I agree with Dave

The Double Six appeared on TV before the switch to Burns, whilst they were still using the white Fenders. Probably 'I'm the Lonely One' was first as Hank told me in 1968 that he double tracked the start on Don't Talk to Him and only used the Double Six for the live version

Regards

Stu

[Billyboygretsch]

Did that Double Six have the Marvin switching or the Split Soundpickups and switching ?

[JimN]

The greenburst or redburst electric 12 was definitely the first of the Burns guitars to be used in public by Hank. As others have said, they were seen on television with it at least twice towards the end of 1963, playing a live version of Don't Talk To Him. Whether that was a guitar+bass version of a normal 12-string tuning, I don't know, but it was certainly seen on TV around then.

As Stuart said, though, the actual recording of DTTH has been revealed to be double-tracked. My information is that the Burns Double-Six was a nightmare to intonate and this was what caused the double-tracking approach. The production model had a bar-bridge* and Hank's examples seem to have had variations of a couple of different Burns trem-bridges on them in an effort to get some semblance of intonation, even if only on a six-saddle bridge.

It was that 1963 use of the Burns 12 which meant that the 1964 switch to the Marvins seemed, after the initial shock had worn off, to be at least logical.

[* Good intonation on a bar bridge is not out of the question; the Gretsch "Rockin' Bar" bridge has absolutely no adjustment except for height and overall tilt, but the guitars to which it is fitted play perfectly well in tune. Have you ever heard Chet out of tune?]

[JimN]

Did that Double Six have the Marvin switching or the Split Soundpickups and switching ?

There were various prototypes, including at least one with a Vista-Sonic-type rotary switch, but production models of the D6 had the Marvin-style five-position slide switch. The one Hank used in the film "Wonderful Life" was fitted with a Marvin switch (but that one isn't one of the two shown years later in his guitar collection).